Technical Questions

Which type of HT leads do I need to use with 123ignition?

It is always possible to use your original HT-leads for the original look. Even when your engine has solid copper core cables it would work with a 123ignition. For the best performance we advise "carbon tension leads". These cables have a little resistance and very good isolation. Of course you can buy these leads at 123igntionshop.com. See here which sets we sell.


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It looks like, after a few kilometers/ miles driving, the engine misfires. What to do?

In some cases a very unstable boardnet voltage can cause misfires. The 123ignition is protected against high voltage peaks and goes in protection mode for a split second when a spike is detected. Most of the time this error occurs when the car battery is charged full again and the voltage regulator starts to work. This problem can be caused by a broken alternator / dynamo or bad voltage regulator. Unfortunately this is impossible to measure with just a standard voltage meter because we talk about high voltage spikes of micro seconds. You could easily test this to drive a while without working alternator / dynamo. Use a fully charged car battery and make sure no other important systems are driven by the dynamo belt, like the coolant pump!!!


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It looks like my engine misfires in the high rpm range, what can cause this problem?

The car battery has to put enough energy into the coil for a powerful spark. In the higher rpm range the time to do this is very short, so all conditions have to be perfect for good performance. Make sure you are using the right coil for your engine, see: "What kind of coil do you recommend?" Resistance somewhere in the primary circuit can cause a lot of ignition problems as well, think about the following: - Coil and ignition wiring: Use good connectors and cables of good quality - Ignition key: Make sure the dashboard ignition key is in good condition ( test to power the ignition/coil direct from the battery ) - Ground connection of the distributor: Make sure the distributor makes a good electrical connection with the engine.


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What kind of sparkplugs do you recommend?

Always use the spark plugs for your engine specified by the manufacturer of the car!


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What kind of tablet or smartphone do I need for the programmable 123/TUNE+?

The app for the programmable 123TUNE+ is available for iOS and Android. Please make sure your device offers Bluetooth 4.0 low energy and an up-to-date operating system (Android 4.4 or newer)


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What PC operating system does the programmable 123/TUNE (USB) run on? 

The 123TUNE runs on Windows 10, Windows 8, Windows 7, Windows Vista & Windows XP (Service Pack 2). Unfortunately there is no MacOS or Linux version available. Note: USB A ---> USB mini cable not included.


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Timing of the spark [video]


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Installation sparkplug leads [video]


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What is vacuum retard (negative vacuum)?

Some classic cars have a mechanical ignition distributor with vacuum retard, also called negative vacuum. In these systems, the ignition timing is retarded at idle. The static advance is only applied when the throttle is pressed, meaning the engine is under load.

In short: at idle, the engine fires close to top dead center (TDC). When the engine is under load, the static advance is applied.

How to set up a 123ignition with a vacuum retard curve?

1. Set the engine to top dead center (TDC) on cylinder 1 during the compression stroke.

2. Install the 123ignition according to the manual, but do not yet place the distributor cap.

3. Turn on the ignition.

4. Rotate the distributor housing against the rotor’s direction of rotation:

a. If the rotor turns clockwise (CW) when the engine runs, turn the housing counterclockwise (CCW).

b. If the rotor turns counterclockwise (CCW), turn the housing clockwise (CW).

5. Slowly and carefully rotate the housing until the green LED lights up, then stop precisely at that point. This point corresponds to 0 degrees for the 123ignition.

6. You have now set the 123ignition’s 0-degree point to top dead center. The ignition will now fire at TDC during startup.

7. Secure the distributor, turn off the ignition, and connect the black wire to the coil.

Why do some ignition distributors have vacuum retard?

Due to stricter environmental regulations, vehicles needed to produce fewer harmful emissions at idle. When an engine idles with advance, it can generate higher emissions of pollutants.

To counteract this, vacuum retard distributors were developed. These retard the ignition timing at idle, making the exhaust gases cleaner. However, ignition advance is still needed under (partial) load, so the retard function is only active when the engine is idling.

How does vacuum retard vacuum work in the 123ignition?

The 123ignition with a single vacuum port does not have a second connection for a vacuum retard hose. Instead, a special method is used:

• The 123ignition is set at top dead center (0 degrees).

• At idle, when vacuum is high, the programmed curve ensures that no advance is applied, meaning the engine fires near TDC.

• At partial or full load, the vacuum decreases, and the 123ignition adds a certain number of degrees of advance — the same amount as the original static setting.

• Centrifugal advance is then added on top of this static advance.


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Check installation 123ignition [video]


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What does the blue Led of the 123/Tune+ show us? [video]

LED on: the 123/TUNE+ is ready for a connection

LED off: the 123/TUNE+ is connected

Flashing: the 123/TUNE+ must be reset


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How do I connect a 123ignition to an MSD Digital 6AL?

See this page


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Will my tachometer (RPM) work with the 123ignition?

Yes, by far most tachometers work in combination with a 123ignition.

A standard voltage-triggered tachometer should be connected as follows:

To make RVI-type tachometers, manufactured by Smiths Company, work correctly, the distributor must be connected differently. The red wire must be connected to the switched positive from the ignition switch instead of to the ignition coil.

The reason: the current flowing through the ignition coil to create a spark is measured by the RVI tachometer. It is the current used by the computer inside the 123ignition that passes through the tachometer and causes an incorrect reading.

Solution: the current required to operate the computer inside the 123ignition will no longer pass through the tachometer if you connect the red (positive) wire of the 123ignition directly to a switched positive supply.

See the wiring diagram for the negative ground version below:

Below is the wiring diagram for positive ground:

How: you can find this switched positive using a test lamp by checking, for example, the fuses while switching the ignition on and off.

If you have another type of tachometer that behaves erratically, it is best to install a diode (1N4007) in series with the tachometer. Note: the striped end of the diode must point towards the tachometer.


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Which coil to use with the 123ignition unit?

Which ignition coil is best to use with your 123ignition strongly depends on which engine you have:

- With a Citroen 2cv: DO NOT use other ignition coils than the standard (black) ignition coil. The manufacturer recommends that you immediately purchase a new black 2CV ignition coil and new silicone ignition cables with your new 123ignition. The brown VISA coil will damage your 123ignition due to the very low primary resistance.

- With the 2 cylinder DAF or FIAT engines you can continue to use the used ignition coil or another coil with approximately 3 Ohm primary resistance. We recommend the 123 Blue Coil. With 4 cylinder engines you can use the original coil or another coil with a primary resistance of at least 1.0 Ohm. For normally used cars we advise you to use the 123 Blue Coil. It may be better to use a 123 Red Coil for a rally car or other application where high revs are often driven. However, this last coil cannot be used if you want to drive with contact points.

- For 6-cylinder engines, we recommend that you replace your ignition coil with a so-called 'high performance' ignition coil because of the short charging time at higher speeds. Make sure that the ignition coil has a primary resistance of at least 1.0 Ohm (or more). We recommend using a 123 Red Coil.

- With 8 cylinder engines, we also recommend that you use a 'high performance' ignition coil in connection with the short charging time at the higher speeds. With an 8 cylinder it is important that the ignition coil has a primary resistance of at least 0.8 Ohm (or more). We recommend that you use a special ignition coil for the V8.

The manufacturer has pointed out to us that there are many complaints about fake "Lucas Sport" or "Lucas gold" ignition coils, so we do not recommend using them.


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Oil in the ignition

If there is oil in the ignition, it may mean that there is negative pressure in the crankcase. Check the vacuum in the crankcase, if you cannot do it yourself, contact your garage.


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Combination Tune+ Bluetooth and Android 7.0

With Android phones, the android operating system is often adjusted by the manufacturer so that this works well for this particular phone. It turns out that the combination of Low power Bleutooth and Android 7.0 does not always work well, which of course we find very annoying. If it affects you, you really have nothing left but to wait for a software update from your telephone manufacturer. We do not know which phones are going well and which are not.
- Works with Android 7.0: Doogee S60
- Does not work with Android 7.0: Motorola MotoG5


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While installing, the rotor seems to be positioned between two cylinders. How is this possible?

In this case, the adjustment with the green LED was likely done in the wrong direction. The direction in which the engine rotates determines the direction in which you should rotate the distributor housing.

If the distributor rotates ClockWise (CW), rotate the distributor housing counterclockwise until the green LED just lights up.

If the distributor rotates CounterClockWise (CCW), rotate the distributor housing clockwise until the green LED just lights up.


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How does the vacuum advance work (and why do I want that)?

How it works:

An engine under heavy load will ping/knock sooner (lean mixture) than an engine under a light load (rich mixture). If we give more pre-ignition to an engine under light load, the efficiency will increase and as a result the engine will use less fuel.

The vacuum in the intake manifold is a measure of the load on the engine. (full throttle up the mountain = throttle valve open –> very little negative pressure. Half throttle down the mountain = throttle valve partially closed –> a lot of negative pressure/vacuum). This means that if a vacuum is created in the intake manifold, we can advance the ignition slightly.

Why do you want this:

In summary, by using vacuum advance we can reduce fuel consumption in partial load, the combustion will be cleaner and the efficiency will improve.

 

As an extra for the more advanced technician:

Altitude compensation: The 123ignition uses absolute pressure, (MAP or Manifold Absolute Pressure) to adjust the ignition timing. This compensates for thinner air (lower air pressure) at higher altitudes. The oxygen concentration per volume of air decreases with altitude, which results in a richer fuel mixture that takes longer to ignite. In these conditions, more pre-ignition is needed for optimal combustion.


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My 123ignition gets hot. Is this a problem?

The distributor is usually thermally connected to the engine block. In almost all cases, you will see that the engine block itself is a few degrees warmer than the distributor.

The distributor is resistant to temperatures of up to 100 °C.

If you still have doubts about the temperature, we recommend measuring the temperature of the engine block near the 123ignition, as well as the temperature of the 123ignition itself.


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Car starts with difficulty, not at all, or even stalls with a warm engine.

If your float adjustment is incorrect, there is slightly too much gasoline in the carburetor. This is not a problem with a cold engine; however, when the engine is warm, it may run too rich. If you turn off the car now, the gasoline in the carburetor will heat up and expand, thus overflowing into the manifold. If you then restart the car, the spark plugs will get wet and the car will flood.

Vapor Lock. The fuel turns into vapor bubbles, preventing gasoline from being pumped into the carburetor. Older mechanical fuel pumps suffer from this more than modern electric pumps. Sometimes shielding the fuel lines and the carburetor can help. Modern gasoline has a lower boiling point, which makes you more susceptible to vapor lock.

Vapor lock is often caused by the float needle and/or the return valve in the fuel pump not sealing properly. If the pressure in the line drops rapidly, the fuel will boil faster because the boiling point is also raised due to the increased pressure. Vapor lock is difficult to diagnose.

If the valves are too tight, you lose compression. Often (though not always), the engine will continue to run. Sometimes it runs somewhat irregularly, and you lose power. If the engine then stalls, it will not start again due to the low compression. After cooling down, the valves close again, and the car starts normally. Pay extra attention to this with recently reconditioned engines and LPG cars. These need to be checked more frequently!

The ignition coil can short-circuit if it gets hot. The windings then lie tighter against each other, making it harder for the insulation. You can test this by inserting a spark plug directly into the coil cable of a warm engine/coil and holding it against the engine. If you get a spark, the coil is in order (and therefore the ignition is also working).

If you do not get a spark with the same test, you are losing the spark in the distributor cap. Then either the distributor cap is dirty or damaged, or the rotor is broken. Also, look closely for black streaks, cracks, or stains on the distributor cap.


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